Magic the Gathering Blog
Don't Believe the Negativity Over MtGO PTQs
Recently starcitygames.com posted an article by Kyle Sanchez that was critical of Magic the Gathering Online (MtGO), in particular the new Pro-Tour Qualifiers that were recently launched within game.
The problem for starcitygames and Kyle Sanchez is that every argument fails to stand up to scrutiny. Here's an analysis of the article and why it's demonstrably wrong.
"My initial reaction was “it’s about time the dedicated online players got their chance,” but as I started reading, I became horrified when I learned there would be a whopping SIXTEEN qualifiers in a short three-month period. I couldn't believe it, and am still flabbergasted right now reading over the schedule here." - Kyle Sanchez
This argument would only make sense if paper players were banned from participating in online events. However, they are not.
There are around 60 PTQs in North America each year. Those that play paper magic in the US go from having 60 assessable PTQs to 76 accessible PTQs.
Online exclusive players go from having zero to 'a whopping SIXTEEN' - against the rest of the world.
But that's not Kyle's real problem. His real problem is that:
"To me, MTGO represents everything that is awful about gaming. First and foremost, I'm not playing against anyone. I'm sitting in front of a computer monitor in my undies with my legs draped out of the desk in front of me, unshaven, unshowered, hair nappy and awkwardly shaped from the pillow that was supporting my head just moments before I logged on. The interface is shoddy, with misclicks aplenty, and the cherished gaming environment that I grew up in is replaced with stupid over-bossed graphics and a mechanical box that determines my fate." - Kyle Sanchez
Mental image of Kyle Sanchez flicking between MtGO and porn browser aside - actually, I may never get it out of my head - everything Kyle says here is demonstrably wrong. Unless Kyle is playing Solitaire exclusively on MtGO, he's generally up against another, hopefully not similarly clad, human being. Misclicks are generally few and far between, and are always due to operator error, not the game itself. And a mechanical box does not determine Kyle's fate, his play skill does.
"More so than MTGO, I'm pro life, and I figured out a few years ago that I'd rather be out of the house doing something than idling away my time in false light with the world at my fingertips. I understand what a great tool the Internet is, and certainly MTGO within it, but such lifestyles would be the end of me if I embraced them again, and I'd go down that dark road of bad hygiene, lower back strains from sitting in a chair too long, and lacking that all important hand to hold and body to cuddle." - Kyle Sanchez
It's almost as if Kyle hasn't met MtG players in competitive environment in real life. Sweaty, smelly, and rarely participating with a life partner.
"Magic to me is meant to be played at a game shop. It’s meant to be played with friends and fellow magicians, and most importantly supporting the stores that introduced us to this great spectacle." - Kyle Sanchez
I don't follow this argument at all. Most PTQs I've been to don't happen at a game shop; they happen at larger venues. So I'm not sure how playing at a shop affects PTQ participation. And supporting WoTC is as important as supporting the local store. They're in a symbiotic relationship of producer/retailer. They need each other. And when one prospers, so does the other. The more people that buy WoTC product online, the healthier the company is, the more it produces, the more the local store can sell.
"It’s about actually owning the cards in which I invest my money, rather than being a glitch away from losing thousands of dollars in digital cards that are MTGO can freeze at any moment. Just ask my friend Zesty234 from the MTGSalvation forums what he thinks of digital gaming. He is the infamous player that used to do those clever riddle spoilers. After they found out it who he was in real life, they banned him two years from the DCI and later that day froze his Online account containing thousands of dollars of cards." - Kyle Sanchez
Few people have lost digital cards due to a 'glitch' - even the example Kyle Sites isn't a glitch. It was a player deliberately breaking the MtGO Terms of Service - what did Zesty234 or Kyle expect? WoTC to write cryptic haikus to Zesty234 to let him know he was in double-deep shit?
Kyle’s argument also ignores one of the best features of MtGO; the ability to convert those digital cards into real cards, something I've taken advantage of again and again.
'Licensing' digital objects is a damn side easier to control legally than managing digital objects others own. This is the exact same model World of Warcraft and other MMOs use to manage digital goods in a world with innumerable trading and ownership laws across the globe. To expect otherwise is to be naive to the realities of digital gaming.
Given this, the fact that WoTC allows for card redemption is amazing.
But back to Kyle:
"So now we have sixteen PTQs available to us online. This is horrible for the real life game, the game we all love. It's astonishing that those sixteen Q's represent a quarter of the PTQs available to those located in the U.S." - Kyle Sanchez
Wrong - they represent a fifth (16 + 60 = 76. 76/16 = ~20%). Again, just because they're online doesn't mean you can't participate if you're in the US. I'd wager that for a lot of people in the US it significantly increases the number of PTQs they can participate in.
"It's astonishing that Wizards would opt to put such a high value prize in a format that is so easily abusable. Magic was meant to be played one on one, my intellect opposite yours, my deck configuration against yours." - Kyle Sanchez
Just like it's done online.
"With online gaming involved, there is nothing stopping the savvy professional players already qualified from taking over someone’s account and maneuvering around a field of average players with ease. There’s also no safeguard for a team of players to sit around a computer to provide more minds, therefore making less mistakes. I know of several pros that have already been paid to play in the October 8th qualifier, and of several joes that are grouping together to get their team qualified one by one." - Kyle Sanchez
Sad to say, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this in paper world either. Fame/identity issues aside, there's no reason why a pro-player can't turn up to a offline PTQ with another player's DCI card, qualify and win right now. I know in the PTQs I've participated in I've entered with no further information than a DCI number scrawled on the back of an old business card. This problem is equally present in the paper world as it is online.
I've also seen teams turn up to PTQs and Pre-Releases with the intent of capturing the top spot and succeeding. Certainly there's no advice on plays, but there's a lot of talk on sideboarding strategy, opponent scouting and preferential concessions and intentional drawing.
"“I paid some dude $100 to win nine rounds for me on my account. Man, that guy is such a master...”
Really?
“No, it actually only ran me twenty bucks and the cost of the tournament…”
And this guy gets to hop into the most prestigious tournament in Magic, for which we've driven millions of miles, woke up untold hours early, and invested our hearts, souls, and blood to succeed? All for $20! And with sixteen PTQs, there could be SIXTEEN of these $20 pro players!" - Kyle Sanchez
This is the most inane argument of all. The online PTQs are a 11+ hour event. At $100 that's a lousy $9/hr. At $20 that's a $2/hr. If the pro-tour player willing to work for that kind of money could please let me know, I have a full-time job I'd like him to take. Gold farming.
"In a world where everything is having to embrace Internet avenues to keep up with those around them, I felt Magic was unique because to be a top level player you were forced to compete face to face with spells in hand. The age in Magic where actually casting spells, rather than clicking a mouse, to win tournaments and advance to the next level is behind us." - Kyle Sanchez
Fuck me. 'Actually casting spells'?
Okay. Settle.
Right now, most of the innovation and competition in MtG is being driven by the Internet. The 'secret tech' that used arrive in magazines months after it's been discovered now takes a couple of hours to reach around the globe. Those that are on the net are innovating faster, smarter and getting in more practice than paper players.
Just like the Gran Turismo GT Academy, there is no doubt that at some point a dedicated MtGO player is going to end up winning a Pro Tour.
Wait a sec, what the fuck am I talking about?
Here's a safe bet; every Pro Tour winner this year has played on either MtGO or Magic Workstation this year to either test, practice, or participate in a competitive environment. Hell, LSV, Oliver Ruel and co write up articles every damn week on how they went drafting *online*.
The idea that MtGO players and paper players are a separate group of entities - especially at the competition level - is ridiculous.
And that's the problem with Kyle's argument. There is no "us" and "them", no deep division between the paper players and the digital players. Paper players can download MtGO tomorrow, and digital players can buy a booster in the local store. Paper players can participate in the online PTQs and digital players can participate in the offline PTQs.
Interestingly, I met a guy at the Melbourne GP who had never played in an offline event before, but drafted twice a day on MtGO. Had no byes, but made Day 2 with flying colours.
Kyle sees the MtGO PTQs as a major risk to... someone. I'm still not sure who. Nothing has been taken away from the mystical paper players who actually cast spells. In fact, they have a new opportunity - take their skills online and beat the noobs there who don't know how to play 'real' magic at their own game.
I think they may discover the players online are better than the 'real' magic players give them credit for.
--- :: ----
As an aside, here's a comment from Patrick Chapin from the starcitygames.com thread for Kyle's article:
Let me tell you how it will really work.
There will be no money exchanged.
Pros will not be playing "for" people in exchange for anything.
What will really happen is that decent/good/has been/almost was/more popular than they are current players will play their own games, but with chat windows open. In addition, they will be hanging out with a ringer friend who is just watching over their shoulder, making suggestions, talking with them about their options. There is little incentive for people to straight up cheat, when it will be so easy to just hang out with ringers friends while they are battling and get advice that will produce 99% of the result of the ringer playing for them.
That is how it will work and that is why half of the 16 slots of the hardest ptqs in the world will go to friends of ringers. The worst part is, anyone who is "popular" and wins a slot this way will immediately be viewed with an eye of suspicion, since it doesn't even matter if they actually got a little help or a lot or none at all, since people will think whatever they want anyway. Besides, what is the official policey? Does it actually say anywhere that when you are playing in a ptq that you are not allowed to ask for help? If you can ask for help once, why can't you ask 99 times or everytime?
I think that if you are going to have slots available this way, you might as well just take the logical step of offering them for sale for a thousand dollars or so. Why not? Just as long as Prize pool/invites < $entry fee, and by a reasonable amount, then why not? The only reason not to before was to preserve the integrity of the event.
That integrity is vastly diminished under the new system. - Patrick Chapin
Okay, I agree with Patrick to a certain extent. Certainly, there is no incentive for a pro-player to straight-up run a PTQ on behalf of a friend. And certainly some people will get help and support from their buddies as to plays over the course of the event. And if Magic is a game of incremental advantage, isn't this terrible?
No.
Because it fails to take into account that the ringers will likely not be as good as the best MtGO players anyway. It assumes a sort of magical ringer status that assures PTQ wins against any level of player.
And it ignores just how good the top-level MtGO players really are. And let's not forget a number of the top-level MtGO players just happen to be Pro-Tour players anyway.
Now, maybe a couple of people will be lucky enough to have a Pro-Tour player as their ringer. But I'd wager on any given day, half the Pro-Tour players would *not* be guaranteed of winning any given PTQ. A good chance, sure. But guaranteed? Not hardly.
The MtGO PTQs are undoubtedly the hardest PTQs to win. I think the best thing to come out of them will be the opportunity to see how the top MtGO players perform on the Pro-Tour.
--- :: ----
Oh, it's so easy to fall into the trap of "us" vs "them". Paper players and digital players overlap in a not inconsiderable way. There is no barrier of entry for one group to participate in the other, and for that reason they are largely one and the same.
Pro-Tour Qualifiers are not easy prey for Pro-Players to dominate - watching the successes and failures of various MtG Entities across the various Magic websites is proof of that. The idea that someone will be able to dial-a-Pro and instantly win a PTQ is fanciful, if not ludicrous.
Ultimately, the MtGO PTQs pose less of a threat to the Magic community than a tired, bedraggled, half-naked Kyle Sanchez does to his own keyboard.
Recently starcitygames.com posted an article by Kyle Sanchez that was critical of Magic the Gathering Online (MtGO), in particular the new Pro-Tour Qualifiers that were recently launched within game.
The problem for starcitygames and Kyle Sanchez is that every argument fails to stand up to scrutiny. Here's an analysis of the article and why it's demonstrably wrong.
"My initial reaction was “it’s about time the dedicated online players got their chance,” but as I started reading, I became horrified when I learned there would be a whopping SIXTEEN qualifiers in a short three-month period. I couldn't believe it, and am still flabbergasted right now reading over the schedule here." - Kyle Sanchez
This argument would only make sense if paper players were banned from participating in online events. However, they are not.
There are around 60 PTQs in North America each year. Those that play paper magic in the US go from having 60 assessable PTQs to 76 accessible PTQs.
Online exclusive players go from having zero to 'a whopping SIXTEEN' - against the rest of the world.
But that's not Kyle's real problem. His real problem is that:
"To me, MTGO represents everything that is awful about gaming. First and foremost, I'm not playing against anyone. I'm sitting in front of a computer monitor in my undies with my legs draped out of the desk in front of me, unshaven, unshowered, hair nappy and awkwardly shaped from the pillow that was supporting my head just moments before I logged on. The interface is shoddy, with misclicks aplenty, and the cherished gaming environment that I grew up in is replaced with stupid over-bossed graphics and a mechanical box that determines my fate." - Kyle Sanchez
Mental image of Kyle Sanchez flicking between MtGO and porn browser aside - actually, I may never get it out of my head - everything Kyle says here is demonstrably wrong. Unless Kyle is playing Solitaire exclusively on MtGO, he's generally up against another, hopefully not similarly clad, human being. Misclicks are generally few and far between, and are always due to operator error, not the game itself. And a mechanical box does not determine Kyle's fate, his play skill does.
"More so than MTGO, I'm pro life, and I figured out a few years ago that I'd rather be out of the house doing something than idling away my time in false light with the world at my fingertips. I understand what a great tool the Internet is, and certainly MTGO within it, but such lifestyles would be the end of me if I embraced them again, and I'd go down that dark road of bad hygiene, lower back strains from sitting in a chair too long, and lacking that all important hand to hold and body to cuddle." - Kyle Sanchez
It's almost as if Kyle hasn't met MtG players in competitive environment in real life. Sweaty, smelly, and rarely participating with a life partner.
"Magic to me is meant to be played at a game shop. It’s meant to be played with friends and fellow magicians, and most importantly supporting the stores that introduced us to this great spectacle." - Kyle Sanchez
I don't follow this argument at all. Most PTQs I've been to don't happen at a game shop; they happen at larger venues. So I'm not sure how playing at a shop affects PTQ participation. And supporting WoTC is as important as supporting the local store. They're in a symbiotic relationship of producer/retailer. They need each other. And when one prospers, so does the other. The more people that buy WoTC product online, the healthier the company is, the more it produces, the more the local store can sell.
"It’s about actually owning the cards in which I invest my money, rather than being a glitch away from losing thousands of dollars in digital cards that are MTGO can freeze at any moment. Just ask my friend Zesty234 from the MTGSalvation forums what he thinks of digital gaming. He is the infamous player that used to do those clever riddle spoilers. After they found out it who he was in real life, they banned him two years from the DCI and later that day froze his Online account containing thousands of dollars of cards." - Kyle Sanchez
Few people have lost digital cards due to a 'glitch' - even the example Kyle Sites isn't a glitch. It was a player deliberately breaking the MtGO Terms of Service - what did Zesty234 or Kyle expect? WoTC to write cryptic haikus to Zesty234 to let him know he was in double-deep shit?
Kyle’s argument also ignores one of the best features of MtGO; the ability to convert those digital cards into real cards, something I've taken advantage of again and again.
'Licensing' digital objects is a damn side easier to control legally than managing digital objects others own. This is the exact same model World of Warcraft and other MMOs use to manage digital goods in a world with innumerable trading and ownership laws across the globe. To expect otherwise is to be naive to the realities of digital gaming.
Given this, the fact that WoTC allows for card redemption is amazing.
But back to Kyle:
"So now we have sixteen PTQs available to us online. This is horrible for the real life game, the game we all love. It's astonishing that those sixteen Q's represent a quarter of the PTQs available to those located in the U.S." - Kyle Sanchez
Wrong - they represent a fifth (16 + 60 = 76. 76/16 = ~20%). Again, just because they're online doesn't mean you can't participate if you're in the US. I'd wager that for a lot of people in the US it significantly increases the number of PTQs they can participate in.
"It's astonishing that Wizards would opt to put such a high value prize in a format that is so easily abusable. Magic was meant to be played one on one, my intellect opposite yours, my deck configuration against yours." - Kyle Sanchez
Just like it's done online.
"With online gaming involved, there is nothing stopping the savvy professional players already qualified from taking over someone’s account and maneuvering around a field of average players with ease. There’s also no safeguard for a team of players to sit around a computer to provide more minds, therefore making less mistakes. I know of several pros that have already been paid to play in the October 8th qualifier, and of several joes that are grouping together to get their team qualified one by one." - Kyle Sanchez
Sad to say, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this in paper world either. Fame/identity issues aside, there's no reason why a pro-player can't turn up to a offline PTQ with another player's DCI card, qualify and win right now. I know in the PTQs I've participated in I've entered with no further information than a DCI number scrawled on the back of an old business card. This problem is equally present in the paper world as it is online.
I've also seen teams turn up to PTQs and Pre-Releases with the intent of capturing the top spot and succeeding. Certainly there's no advice on plays, but there's a lot of talk on sideboarding strategy, opponent scouting and preferential concessions and intentional drawing.
"“I paid some dude $100 to win nine rounds for me on my account. Man, that guy is such a master...”
Really?
“No, it actually only ran me twenty bucks and the cost of the tournament…”
And this guy gets to hop into the most prestigious tournament in Magic, for which we've driven millions of miles, woke up untold hours early, and invested our hearts, souls, and blood to succeed? All for $20! And with sixteen PTQs, there could be SIXTEEN of these $20 pro players!" - Kyle Sanchez
This is the most inane argument of all. The online PTQs are a 11+ hour event. At $100 that's a lousy $9/hr. At $20 that's a $2/hr. If the pro-tour player willing to work for that kind of money could please let me know, I have a full-time job I'd like him to take. Gold farming.
"In a world where everything is having to embrace Internet avenues to keep up with those around them, I felt Magic was unique because to be a top level player you were forced to compete face to face with spells in hand. The age in Magic where actually casting spells, rather than clicking a mouse, to win tournaments and advance to the next level is behind us." - Kyle Sanchez
Fuck me. 'Actually casting spells'?
Okay. Settle.
Right now, most of the innovation and competition in MtG is being driven by the Internet. The 'secret tech' that used arrive in magazines months after it's been discovered now takes a couple of hours to reach around the globe. Those that are on the net are innovating faster, smarter and getting in more practice than paper players.
Just like the Gran Turismo GT Academy, there is no doubt that at some point a dedicated MtGO player is going to end up winning a Pro Tour.
Wait a sec, what the fuck am I talking about?
Here's a safe bet; every Pro Tour winner this year has played on either MtGO or Magic Workstation this year to either test, practice, or participate in a competitive environment. Hell, LSV, Oliver Ruel and co write up articles every damn week on how they went drafting *online*.
The idea that MtGO players and paper players are a separate group of entities - especially at the competition level - is ridiculous.
And that's the problem with Kyle's argument. There is no "us" and "them", no deep division between the paper players and the digital players. Paper players can download MtGO tomorrow, and digital players can buy a booster in the local store. Paper players can participate in the online PTQs and digital players can participate in the offline PTQs.
Interestingly, I met a guy at the Melbourne GP who had never played in an offline event before, but drafted twice a day on MtGO. Had no byes, but made Day 2 with flying colours.
Kyle sees the MtGO PTQs as a major risk to... someone. I'm still not sure who. Nothing has been taken away from the mystical paper players who actually cast spells. In fact, they have a new opportunity - take their skills online and beat the noobs there who don't know how to play 'real' magic at their own game.
I think they may discover the players online are better than the 'real' magic players give them credit for.
--- :: ----
As an aside, here's a comment from Patrick Chapin from the starcitygames.com thread for Kyle's article:
Let me tell you how it will really work.
There will be no money exchanged.
Pros will not be playing "for" people in exchange for anything.
What will really happen is that decent/good/has been/almost was/more popular than they are current players will play their own games, but with chat windows open. In addition, they will be hanging out with a ringer friend who is just watching over their shoulder, making suggestions, talking with them about their options. There is little incentive for people to straight up cheat, when it will be so easy to just hang out with ringers friends while they are battling and get advice that will produce 99% of the result of the ringer playing for them.
That is how it will work and that is why half of the 16 slots of the hardest ptqs in the world will go to friends of ringers. The worst part is, anyone who is "popular" and wins a slot this way will immediately be viewed with an eye of suspicion, since it doesn't even matter if they actually got a little help or a lot or none at all, since people will think whatever they want anyway. Besides, what is the official policey? Does it actually say anywhere that when you are playing in a ptq that you are not allowed to ask for help? If you can ask for help once, why can't you ask 99 times or everytime?
I think that if you are going to have slots available this way, you might as well just take the logical step of offering them for sale for a thousand dollars or so. Why not? Just as long as Prize pool/invites < $entry fee, and by a reasonable amount, then why not? The only reason not to before was to preserve the integrity of the event.
That integrity is vastly diminished under the new system. - Patrick Chapin
Okay, I agree with Patrick to a certain extent. Certainly, there is no incentive for a pro-player to straight-up run a PTQ on behalf of a friend. And certainly some people will get help and support from their buddies as to plays over the course of the event. And if Magic is a game of incremental advantage, isn't this terrible?
No.
Because it fails to take into account that the ringers will likely not be as good as the best MtGO players anyway. It assumes a sort of magical ringer status that assures PTQ wins against any level of player.
And it ignores just how good the top-level MtGO players really are. And let's not forget a number of the top-level MtGO players just happen to be Pro-Tour players anyway.
Now, maybe a couple of people will be lucky enough to have a Pro-Tour player as their ringer. But I'd wager on any given day, half the Pro-Tour players would *not* be guaranteed of winning any given PTQ. A good chance, sure. But guaranteed? Not hardly.
The MtGO PTQs are undoubtedly the hardest PTQs to win. I think the best thing to come out of them will be the opportunity to see how the top MtGO players perform on the Pro-Tour.
--- :: ----
Oh, it's so easy to fall into the trap of "us" vs "them". Paper players and digital players overlap in a not inconsiderable way. There is no barrier of entry for one group to participate in the other, and for that reason they are largely one and the same.
Pro-Tour Qualifiers are not easy prey for Pro-Players to dominate - watching the successes and failures of various MtG Entities across the various Magic websites is proof of that. The idea that someone will be able to dial-a-Pro and instantly win a PTQ is fanciful, if not ludicrous.
Ultimately, the MtGO PTQs pose less of a threat to the Magic community than a tired, bedraggled, half-naked Kyle Sanchez does to his own keyboard.
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